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 请教：企业估值 |
高圣
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请教：企业估值
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最近在做一家国企的财务顾问与外资谈判被收购事宜，现请教一问题，某外资出价8000万美金，但此价格要减去银行长短期负债再加上帐面现金，请教，各位觉得此方法合理吗？
谢谢！
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Manchester Tina
头衔: 海归中校 
加入时间: 2004/10/04
文章: 584
海归分: 58400
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My opinion:
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作者：Manchester Tina 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
Cost of combination=Net assets acquired as represented by +Goodwill
Net assets acquired as represented by refers to Share capital and Retained earning. Nothing relate to Non-current liabilities and current liabilities or cash and cash equivalents.
However, Goodwill of Chinese state-owned Co. is more abstract. In order to simplify this issue, the liabilities (current and non-current) and cash and cash equivalents can be a benchmark.
To conculde, it is not reasonable in western world, but for China, it is ok.
The best way to negotiate over this issue is "say it is not right firstly, but consider it carefully."
The above is personal opinion, hope can give you a bit help.
作者：Manchester Tina 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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Jimmy
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八千万天天掉价的美刀，把国企当垃圾卖。还有什么公平不公平。
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hghg11
头衔: 海归中尉
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加入时间: 2004/04/07
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nothing wrong.
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Buyers can bid for different parts of a company, asset, equity only, or enterprise. The most common bid is for Enterprise value, which equals to equity + debt - cash.
But in your case, it seems like that they gave an enterprise value = 80 mln plus cash - Debt, since you are still responsible for your debt. Seems a bit low, but nothing wrong with that. It is ur duty to figure out at what price u are willing to sell, not them.
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Manchester Tina
头衔: 海归中校
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Sorry, I can't agree. I don't think it is reasonable for the seller if it is in western world. Because
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作者：Manchester Tina 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
| hghg11 写道: | | nothing wrong. |
when we use the common bid for Enterprise value , Enterprise value equals to equity + liabilities -Current assets, but don't forget equity include an item Revaluation surplus! If the buyer pay the Revaluation surplus, that is a deal. But they did not mention about that. It means the seller lose this part of income. It is case not reasonable for the seller in the western world. However, there is not in the same track in China. The Revaluation surplus is very abstract (same as the goodwill by using the method I mention below).
Therefore, should think about it carefully.
作者：Manchester Tina 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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tutu
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来自: 广州：gz_venture_club AT yahoo DOT com
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您讲的好像是外商对哪一部分资产估价的问题，并不是作价的方法或基准问题。
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Yan
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来自: UK
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请问楼上的专业。我希望不是金融或财务管理及会计。不然，还要问学校。
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| tutu 写道: | | 您讲的好像是外商对哪一部分资产估价的问题，并不是作价的方法或基准问题。 |
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hghg11
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bid is a bid, nothing wrong with that.
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作者：hghg11 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
| Manchester Tina 写道: | | Sorry, I can't agree. I don't think it is reasonable for the seller if it is in western world. Because |
to me, the revaluation and other value sources, like synergy, financial engrerring, strategic value, liquiditiy discount, controlling premium/discount etc, should be and they really are priced in the equity piece. guess u dont need to put a list of add-on values to ur enterprise equation. my whole point here is there is nothing wrong with a bid, no matter how low it is. bid is a bid. Bids determine the price. People can low bid all day long, it is the seller's decision, depending on its available options, to take a bid. Good or bad, all yours.
作者：hghg11 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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Manchester Tina
头衔: 海归中校
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oh, I misunderstood you.
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| hghg11 写道: | | bid is a bid, nothing wrong with that. |
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Manchester Tina
头衔: 海归中校
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tutu,原贴哪一句提及你所说的“外商收购哪一部分资产”，题目是“企业估值”内容是“被收购事宜”，问题是“方法是否合理”（见原贴），不谈作价的方法或基准谈什么？建议你先搞懂基本概念。
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Manchester Tina
头衔: 海归中校
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hghg11有水平！
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| Manchester Tina 写道: | | oh, I misunderstood you. |
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hghg11
头衔: 海归中尉
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where, where
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| Manchester Tina 写道: | | hghg11有水平！ |
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ceo/cfo
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Here is my two cents--selling your company shares or assets only?
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作者：ceo/cfo 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
When you are selling your company, everything is negotiable. If your company is a privately owned one instead of a publically traded one, the equity approach is hard to evaluate because your company does not have a market price for its shares. Normally the other party will offer you a price which includes your operational cash and the cash like (a/c receivables, notes, cd, money market a/c, etc.) but assume all of your debts, both long and short term.
Another thing is whether they buy your shares or your assets? This will have a huge impact on your liability assumption and tax consequence. Of course my experience is limited to American companies only and I am as yet to close any deal with Chinese companies.
作者：ceo/cfo 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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ceo/cfo
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You may need to have an appraisal done on company valuation. The selling price depends on:
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your sales revenue, cash flow, tangibles and intangibles, do you own the building? land? the whole nine yards. For acquisition/merger purpose, I personally never buy company for its shares, but its assets only.
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phoenix
头衔: 海归少校 
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Controlling premium is priced in the equity price; transaction price
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| hghg11 写道: | | bid is a bid, nothing wrong with that. |
reflects part of "value created/destroyed" of the transaction.
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高圣
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首先，谢谢各位。其次，补充一些资料。
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作者：游客 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
这是一家老牌国有啤酒厂，很烂的，问题爆多，进场后先做了一些重组，不过改善不大。但赶上好时候，竟有两三家世界啤酒巨头打破脑袋参与竞购。目前，已处于首次报价阶段。现在这家的报价其实已经高出净资产很多很多，8000万的价格也确实是企业预期的心理价位。不过说实话，企业负债这块tmd确实太滥，欠一屁股烂帐（多家银行和其他），其中，有一大笔应付税金（原因很复杂。。。）。估计，老外是感觉这块搞不定，今后风险很大，所以看是不是这块由原企业负担（老外也是在试探）。
作者：游客 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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Manchester Tina
头衔: 海归中校
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我认为需要具体的数目计算。
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| 高圣 写道: | | 首先，谢谢各位。其次，补充一些资料。 |
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hghg11
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keep no debt and at least 80+ for equity
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作者：hghg11 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
| 高圣 写道: | | 首先，谢谢各位。其次，补充一些资料。 |
The bid u got, if I understand it right, the buyer bids u the whole enterprise @ 80-debt+cash, not equity. Here u get a double whammy on debt. The debt & tax payable, given the info provided, should not expose the buyer much uncertainties and the valuation should not be difficult. It is not like litigation liability. So I think the high risk of those debt is an not so good excuse for not assuming them.
You are in a good position when a few big buyers are chasing you. Let them assume all debt and pay u at least 80+. Good luck.
fyi, half yr ago, Harbin Brewery was in a bid war. You may want to find some transaction information. As I remember, the PE paid for this transaction was 40-45 range and 30% premium over stock price.
作者：hghg11 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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ceo/cfo
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Take the money and run! However, don't be fooled by the offering
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作者：ceo/cfo 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
| 高圣 写道: | | 首先，谢谢各位。其次，补充一些资料。 |
price much higher than your net assets. The value of your intangible cannot be ignored here, such as brand name, trademark, distribution channels, market shares, customer list, vendor list, partnership with other reputable Chinese companies, patent, etc.
Are you desperate to sell your company? If you are, you should take care of the tax liability. If I were the buyer, I would never have myself exposed to your future tax liabilities, especially nobody knows how much. I am almost certain no Western company will do that. This could be a major deal spoiler.
my two cents.
作者：ceo/cfo 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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Manchester Tina
头衔: 海归中校
加入时间: 2004/10/04
文章: 584
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冒昧问一句：何不拿报表或更详细资料来做个案例分析呢？
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作者：Manchester Tina 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
| 高圣 写道: | | 首先，谢谢各位。其次，补充一些资料。 |
我不敢冒然下结论，实在太多问题不清楚，如：
1。 你所指老牌，究竟品牌的价值是多少呢？如青岛与其他牌子就差很远。
2。高出净资产很多有时候也不一定是一笔好交易。 如已形成的销售渠道，品牌甚至特殊的配方，人力资源都是无形资产的源头。
3。8000万美元不一定就是高价，应考虑汇率等。
4。欠债究竟是多少，我们不知道。
5。应付税金多少，国税还是地税，有否涉及刑法。
6。与地方政府的关系。
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
真不敢胡说八道，这可是正事。
作者：Manchester Tina 在 海归商务 发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com
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